Sure they should! WE ALL SHOULD be held accountable..... to everyone for our testimony (or lack thereof)..... to God for he is the one we ultimately hurt when we do wrong......but to our churches for discipline.....
That brings me back to my original post..... would I bring certain groups or acts into my church, if I was doing the booking? I am accountable to my church for who sings and comes thru the doors to minister. I can’t be responsible for what I don’t know, but I am for the things that I am aware of....
I have had a few preachers/bookers “grill” me about my group members before they’d book us. I have NO problem with that. They want to know if there are any drinkers.... are we in our church when we are not out singing, etc… I would want to know that I am bringing more than just a voice into our church.
Some things are done, like the Stuart and Gill thing, as added entertainment to a concert. Like Gold City showing up at a Oak Ridge Boys concert and doing a verse of “Elvira”.... wrong? no. inappropriate? not in my book. It’s just fun to sing, sometimes......
No question that SG singers are just as human as country/rock or any other genre. My point is to ask if there is a standard of behavior that we should expect from those who are in the gospel music field? Gill and Stuart are not in the gospel music field, but Gaither is the most well known name in gospel music these days. He is a trend setter whether everyone likes it or not.
I look at the past serveral years and I see lots of “scandals” that have led many church goers to question what is really going on behind the scenes. Whether it be Gill and Grant or Ray Boltz or the issues with Talley a few years ago. I was looking at another thread on this board about Boltz and many people are upset about his admission of being homosexual. Is that the sin where we say, “No, that is not acceptable.” What about adultery, is that any different from a bibical standpoint? How about drunkeness? A lot of people think drinking in moderation is okay (not me, but others) but the Bible condemns getting drunk.
I guess my ultimate question is this, should singers who claim to be called of God to spread his message through song, be held to the same standard as pastors?
I would lean more towards yes...That is because it is a ministry… There are probably to many who are singing for a job and they enjoy it, but not because they were called.
So do you folks have a list of BIG sins that would prevent someone from ministering and then a list of “little” sins that don’t bother you? Is this list all inclusive or does it change. I’m assuming adultery is on the big list but coveting and lying are on the little list. What is the statute of limitations on adultry? Is fornication on your big list or little list?
I gather being a country music singer like Gill, Stewart, Ricky Scaggs, Randy Travis, Josh Turner, Wynonna, Barbara Mandrell puts you on the BIG sin list automatically. What about those SG artists who have tried to cross over to that lifestyle and failed or either came back after their popularity declined? Folks like the Statlers, the Oak Ridge Boys, and Sonya Isaacs? Which one of your lists are they on?
What about these session musicians that play on almost every piece of music and tracks you buy? Lots of them do session work during the week and play in night clubs and secular events at night and on the weekends. Is their gifted playing ok for you to listen to just because you don’t know thier names. Pastor, if you have a group come to your church, nine times out of ten their tracks are done by these “secular” musicians, especially if they are using the A list session players in Nashville. Is it OK to play their music in your church?
So, Family Man.... if that is your REAL name… lol..... don’t you have a standard of what is acceptable? Would you allow a guy to stumble drunk off the bus, with a cigar in his mouth and a girl on each arm, to come on in and sing for your church in front of your family? Of course not. We all have to try to do what we can to keep the witness. I agree that just about the only difference between some of these sins and sinners that have been mentioned and the “rest of us” is that no one knows about “the rest of us”!!! We may not do all these “BIG” things, but we hve sin in our lives. It is what we do about it that matters.
We can’t control everything, but we can control, I believe we should. We have responsibility to our people nd our families, right?
I really have a hard time understanding why Familyman is getting all up in the air over this issue...What Vince Gill or Marty Stuart do is their business and they will answer for their lives. I am more concerned with Gaither and the message that he is sending by basically endorsing the lifestyles of these poeple by using them to sell videos.
This “big” sin vs “little” sin stuff is because most of us have had our view of sin colored by the Roman Catholic tradition whether we know it or not. It was the early Catholic chuch leaders who determined that different sins required different levels of penance. Sin is sin that is true, but sins do carry different degrees of consequences. My wife will not leave me over making a wise crack that hurts her feelings, but she will likely be gone in a second if I cheated on her. For those who stand as leaders in the church, whether it be music or preaching, there must be a standard. What Gill and Amy Grant did was terrible. It is wrong for Gaither to turn a blind eye to this just to sell tapes. BTW, there must be somthing to this, as I do not see Talley on many Gaither videos anymore. Why no Talley, but Gill and Stewart?
I am sure Gaither would take my call...Please. I never made a claim of sinlessnes, I am simply asking a question. Can a person live any way they wish and then get up and say they are representing the Lord and his Word? I have not read on true answer to the question in this thread. I read alot of this “do not be judgemental” stuff, but nothing about the real issue. As a pastor, if I ran off with a woman who was not my wife, I would be fired from my pulpit. Is the standard not the same for singers and gospel music distributors life Gaither and Gill?
I really have a hard time understanding why Familyman is getting all up in the air over this issue...What Vince Gill or Marty Stuart do is their business and they will answer for their lives. I am more concerned with Gaither and the message that he is sending by basically endorsing the lifestyles of these poeple by using them to sell videos.
This “big” sin vs “little” sin stuff is because most of us have had our view of sin colored by the Roman Catholic tradition whether we know it or not. It was the early Catholic chuch leaders who determined that different sins required different levels of penance. Sin is sin that is true, but sins do carry different degrees of consequences. My wife will not leave me over making a wise crack that hurts her feelings, but she will likely be gone in a second if I cheated on her. For those who stand as leaders in the church, whether it be music or preaching, there must be a standard. What Gill and Amy Grant did was terrible. It is wrong for Gaither to turn a blind eye to this just to sell tapes. BTW, there must be somthing to this, as I do not see Talley on many Gaither videos anymore. Why no Talley, but Gill and Stewart?
I’m not up in the air. I’m asking you where you draw your line of sanctimony? How do you investigate those who you believe in and open your church to, especially if you don’t know them.
You, me, or anyone else is not qualified to be the judge. If you eliminated every SG artist who has committed adultry from singing at churches, you would have a very small section left. You are assuming SG artists are better just because you know the “image” they have created. You might be surprised at how far from reality that image is.
It is much easier to cast a stone first and check the facts later, which is, in my opinion, what you have done.
I am sure Gaither would take my call...Please. I never made a claim of sinlessnes, I am simply asking a question. Can a person live any way they wish and then get up and say they are representing the Lord and his Word? I have not read on true answer to the question in this thread. I read alot of this “do not be judgemental” stuff, but nothing about the real issue. As a pastor, if I ran off with a woman who was not my wife, I would be fired from my pulpit. Is the standard not the same for singers and gospel music distributors life Gaither and Gill?
I just asked a question too. As in Jesus’ and Paul’s time, the other brother might not listen to you but that does not abrogate your obligation to try to privately deal with the matter. Assuming the other brother has the problem; the idea is to allow the brother to deal with the matter privately where s/he is more likely to feel less threatened and is more likely to look at the situation like God does.
Should that fail, Paul says we are to get another brother(s) to go with us and try again.
Should that fail, we are told to turn the matter over to the elders of the church.
It is the job of the church to deal with unrepentant brothers.
And, to your compliant, the answer is that the position of a gospel singer is not the same as that of an evangelist or a pastor, elder or bishop or even deacon. The latter are officers of the church. Gospel singers are not.
That said, it’s not the job of any of us to LORD it over anyone else. We are members of the body not the HEAD of the body. Jesus as HEAD of the body is quite capable of dealing with sinners and backslidden believers. Our job is to pray for the other brother unless it is a SIN UNTO DEATH.
As for Marty Stuart and Vince Gill, it is not easy being in the spotlight. Sin is sin but our aim should be for accountability and restoration not destroying those who are caught in sin. To me, you are like those who caught the woman in the act of adultry. They were trying to trick Jesus. To get him to condone them stoning the woman. He invited the one without sin to throw the first stone. There’s your chance. After one by one slunk off, the woman ask him if he was going to stone her. He could have. He was sinless. However, he chose to show compassion and he told her to go and sin no more.
Tony: I agree with you my brother. I could not have said it any better myself!!!! Amen! Amen! and Amen!!!! If this pastor doesn’t get it after this then he will never get it. Being argumentative is the way some folks deal with a lack of comprehension or not wanting to accept the facts as they are. As Christians, when dealing with sin (or for that matter any misunderstanding we may have) of/with a brother/sister, we can never go wrong by showing LOVE, COMPASSION and FORGIVENESS as we are commanded by our Lord to do. All of us human beings (including pastors) sometimes fail to get it right. We seem to always want to come down on the side of judgement!!!! God, please help us to be more like you everyday of our lives and leave the judging to you. Pastor: prayer changes things and it changes people.....pray for those you don’t agree with instead of trying to tear them down publicly. You may not like the fact that Mr. Gaither reaches out in “Christian Love” to some that you may not approve of but, I for one am very glad that we have someone of his stature in SG music that is willing to go the extra mile to actually “show a little kindness”. I have found that you bring more into the fold by being “kind” in leading them to Christ than being judgemental and critical. IMHO, as a pastor, you also should pray that God will give you the heart of Christ showing love and kindness when dealing with discipline issues among your parishioners. Judgement never works for us human beings with each other...it just causes resistance and resentment. God can handle that task so much better than we can....I think that his why he advised us to leave it to him.
OK, I’m new here, but I’m not a new Christian and I have seen the Lord deal with people (and me as well). He may put up with “stuff” for awhile, but he is not mocked. People, everyone will reap what they sow.
Did anyone attend the NQC chapel service with Dr. David Jeremiah? I’m 55 years old and I have been hearing that Jesus is coming back soon all my life. SG music songs are full of this theme. When I was a teen I told my mom I really believed that if I lived out a normal lifetime I would see Jesus return. I told my husband the same very recently. David J said the same in his talk that day. Folks it’s coming from every quarter. God is raising up a standard and the Word of God is going forth. People are responding. I wish I had the time to tell what is going on locally where I live. And God doesn’t do anything in a corner. His work is springing up ALL over. I’m not talking signs and wonders, altho there is some of that, but not anyone seeking that. I’m talking about the Church being the Church, going out living and doing, witnessing, ministering........no glory to anyone but our LORD.
God is calling ALL of us to a standard of holiness and things that can be shaken are being shaken. Anyone who calls themselves by His Name is going to have to look like Him. It doesn’t matter if its SG singers, CM singers, gospel promoters, pasters, music leaders, TV preachers, or just “the flock”. The sifting has begun.
So I wouldn’t concern myself too much with Bill, Vince or any of the others mentioned. God will deal with them, just as he will deal with you and me. There are alot of folks listening and singing those songs about the rapture who are deceived. It’s wake up time.
I am a gospel singer,and I feel God has called me to do this. Reading this has brought up several things in my mind. 1st. Before I started singing for God I still was a christian. There were some things that I didnt have a problem with. As I started singing, all of a sudden I did. God was convicting me,to change some things as a christian ministry. Now the thing is. From a christian standpoint, I still didnt find these things wrong or even that important in the grand scheme of things. But as a Person going out in a ministry, I was convicted that I needed to stop,stay away,whatever from these things.
We sang the song why me Lord the other night and it was amazing how it went over. I wasnt sure about it because of who wrote it and the lifestyle they lived. But afterwards, it was amazing. It was like God spoke to me and let me know it came from him. He just used the other as a vessel. Why? Dont ask me,that was Gods decision. I guess the way he used alot of folks. BUt I do know it touched a ton of people that night and thier comment was,"I had never herd that song in that format before.Wow what a beutiful song that speaks about all of us.” You know, God keeps knocking on all our hearts. Some respond soon,some late,some not at all. But its still God. Maybe this song was a call from God to this gentleman that wrote it,and its up to him to respond.
As a music ministry,we deal with a lot of issues. I am not a trained pastor. I even told my pastor I didnt want to be a good baptist because baptist can only take me to Hell. Only Jesus Christ can take me to heaven so I just want to be a good christian. We try and stay in the plant the seed mode and let God do the cleaning up. BUt I wouldnt stop anyone from singing about Christ,period. You never know when that heart finally completely gives in and Praise God then. God can use anyone for anything. So, yes gaurd your pulpit,especially the message coming from it, but lets not be too hard on the messengers. No maybe not invite vince or Marty to take over the pulpit Sunday Morning,but listening to them sing about God with the instrument he gave them. You never know what work God is doing in there lives. Besides,if we kicked out all leaders in church sinning now!!,there would not be a church.
Thanks for speaking up. What you all have said adds perspective to the discussion. The LORD is indeed at work. Paul said in Acts that God has set a time when he will judge the world. We need to be looking for Christ’s imminent return. Come quickly, LORD Jesus.
